If Ogyen Trinley Dorje shot rainbows out his ass in Germany over the weekend

Picture of Ogyen Trinley Dorje on tour making it rain cash for his Karma Kagyu sect back home in India

“Ogyen Trinley Dorje could have shot rainbows out his ass in Bonn over the weekend for all I care as a lifelong Karma Kagyu.”

So says John.

“I was 22 when Rangjung Rikpe Dorje pointed out the true nature of my mind for me here in Chicago.”

John continues.

“This is what he was in Chicago to do, and he did it, without even referencing Buddhism.”

John adds.

“His Holiness pointed out the true nature of my mind simply by choosing to die here with us like he did.”



Filed under Buddhism

34 responses to “If Ogyen Trinley Dorje shot rainbows out his ass in Germany over the weekend

  1. Osel Karl

    I get John’s point.

    However, there is more to the path than having the nature of one’s mind pointed out. There is the process of continuing to tame the mind to that the stabilization of awareness allows greater and greater familiarity with that experience. This requires the presence of a guru, someone who is familiar with the path and has themselves successfully navigated it.

    Practices like Akshobya are very powerful in directly introducing the immovable nature of the mind.

    Just because John had his mind pointed out a very long time ago does not mean that HHGK17 needs to shoot anything out of his ass to complete.

    To request competition is to fall out of mahamudra.

    Karmapa provided a means for John to continue to tame and stabilize his mind. That he doesn’t even know John and he did this is incredible.

    Time to rejoice!!!

  2. Jackie

    You want enlightenment? Show me the money!

  3. Osel Karl

    Can’t see the image, Brian!


  4. VAL

    “At his death in 1981, His Holiness had very little, only about
    $160,000, and in the confusion of financial records then, the Rumtek
    administration could only get access to about $60,000 of that.”

    Source, p89 in:

  5. What rational support is there for a premise of what ought to be?

    • We live in the appearances of things.

      This includes believing that it is unacceptable for Ogyen Trinley Dorje to us the West to raise funds for his Karma Kagyu sect back in India under the guise of teaching the dharma.

      Is this something you want to be associated with as a Karma Kagyu?

      John doesn’t, and he isn’t alone in this regard.

      Is this rational?

      They care not whether it is rational or not.

      This is what they feel, as such, based on their experience as Karma Kagyu.

      • Hai … And I agree – such ought statements seem more like expressions of feeling than any thing else. And as such, I often have troubles with the probative value of such statements.

        Its the appearance of things – samsara … teachings are necessary, money is necessary. And there always seems to be the notion of sacrifice – whether it is money, time or whatever – there is always a loss for a gain.

        • It is unacceptable for Ogyen Trinley Dorje to come to the West to raise money under the guise of teaching the dharma.

          He needs to revisit the idea.


          It looks bad.

          It reflects poorly on us.

          Rangjung Rikpe didn’t come to us to raise money under the guise of teaching the dharma.

          Yet Ogyen Trinley Dorje does so.

          • Christien

            Why is samsara always equated with having to pay for things?

            There sure does seem to be a lot of bias in thinking that way.

            Would the absence of money make things less samsaric?

            Better still, does economics fall away when one becomes realized?

            I ask these questions because there seems to be an underlying assumption that non-participation in an economy is inherent in enlightenment, or at the very least the move towards a more realized way of being.

            • Jackie

              We like to think our teachers are beyond greed, vanity and lust. It’s saddening when we see that many of them are much like we are.

  6. The reason monks or leaders should not take money has nothing to do with their level of attainment. It has everything to do with their appearance as a role model. People can’t look up to an equal. Whoever they aspire to be like, must be more compassionate, more generous, more kind, in fact, just more everything. In this respect, it is fantastic to honor someone who tries harder to become the embodiment of our truest, harmonic nature and even does so more successfully but that ideal that you worship in your mind… should never be an actual person. It should be “someone” that will ALWAYS take the higher road and can even “look” like someone you know, like your guru, but that person is a myth in reality because what you believe about your guru is something you’ve concocted. But, although they are a myth, aspiring to be that myth, is probably the most important thing people can do. Our minds are much stronger than our physical being. Get it?

    • Christien

      Wenderwoman, perhaps a dose of reality might be a great idea.

      You can try to be equal to your guru, but that’s more of a western cultural trip rather than what’s really going on in my reality. These people are our gurus precisely because they aren’t better than us.

  7. I’m not sure if you are agreeing with me or not Christien. If you believe that your guru is equal to you, then why do you need your guru?

  8. Unfortunately, Christien, many people believe that their guru is perfect and when they are disappointed by their failure to be perfect, they become lost spiritually. They lose all interest in expressing their true harmonious nature… they become jaded. That is the worst thing a spiritual figurehead can do, take on the role and then destroy any faith a person could have in a spiritual role model. In my opinion, it is one of the worst harms someone can do.

    If you can be wise enough to separate the “real” guru from the “true” guru in your mind, you will be much better off. People will disappoint where the true guru cannot.

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