Picture of Thaye Dorje instagramed by the old man to illustrate this episode of Pulp Buddhism in which the Naropa Prairie Dog Players discuss that place where Ogyen Trinley Dorje isn’t the 17th Karmapa..
Sally begins.
“In 1975, forty years ago, the 17th Gyalwa Karmapa, Rangjung Rikpe Dorje established the Dhagpo Kagyu Ling Center for Buddhist Studies and Meditation as his Karma Kagyu sect’s monastic seat in France where it today has, according to its website, close to 70 affiliate centers which several generations of French Karma Kagyu can call their own, the French Federation of Karma Kagyu Centers.”
Sally adds.
“I googled it.”
Caroline replies.
“It is worth noting that there is no mention of Tibet, Tibetans or their Buddhism on their home page.”
Sally replies.
“And Ogyen Trinley Dorje isn’t the Karmapa there.”
Virginia replies.
“We don’t talk about it.”
Virginia adds.
“These people are dead to us.”
Karl replies.
“She isn’t kidding.”
Caroline replies.
“All thanks to Ogyen Trinley Dorje’s Karma Kagyu sect.”
Caroline adds.
“I kid you not.”
Sally replies.
“I thought it was Shamar Rinpoche that split the Karma Kagyu sect.”
Sally adds.
“That whole controversy of who is the reincarnation of the 16th Karmapa.”
Virginia replies.
“Shamar Rinpoche violated his samaya.”
Karl reples.
“So says Ogyen Trinley Dorje’s Karma Kagyu sect.”
Sally replies.
“Well, something obviously happened.”
Virginia replies,
“We don’t talk about it.”
Virginia pauses.
“Ogyen Trinley Dorje is the 17th Karmapa.”
End scene. Fini.
Another episode of Pulp Buddhism brought to you by the Naropa Prairie Dog Players and by viewers like you, thank you for your support.
Tinfoil Ushnisha 
Dhagpo Kagyu Ling”, founded in 1975, is the European seat of the Karma Kagyü school, one of the four lineages of Tibetan Buddhism, represented by the 17th Karmapa. More than forty years later, we are, today, a vast community continuing to grow. Almost seventy satellite centers in France are connected to Dhagpo.
(from Home page – I see Tibetan Buddhism is mentioned)
Caroline replies.
“I stand corrected.”
Caroline adds.
“My point stands though.”
Caroline continues.
“There is this place where Ogyen Trinley Dorje isn’t Karmapa.”
Karl adds.
“And Tibet and Tibetans appear to not be the measure of all things Karma Kagyu.”
Sally adds.
“They have a federation of Karma Kagyu centers.”
a place where you can meet a Yangsi not born in Tibet
Virginia replies.
“Correct me if I’m wrong but wasn’t Thaye Dorje born in occupied Tibet?”
Caroline replies.
“That’s true.”
Caroline pauses.
“To Shamar Rinpoche’s credit he didn’t cut the deal with the Chinese that Ogyen Trinley Dorje’s supporters did.”
Virginia replies.
“Both Situ Rinpoche and HHDL decided otherwise.”
Caroline replies.
“Shamar Rinpoche was right about the Chinese though.”
Caroline continues.
“He got Thaye Dorje out of occupied Tibet before it was an issue.
In the 70’s , Karmapa sent Khenpo Rinpoche to establish a seat for the Karmapas in North America and Guendun Rinpoche in Europe .
Lama Guendun Rinpoche passed away on the 31st October 1997 at Dhagpo Kundreul Ling in Auvergne , France . Guess who was born in Auvergne later ? This charming boy .
End scene. Fini.
Caroline replies.
“In 1975 Rangjung Rikpe Dorje sent Khenpo Karthar Rinpoche to America.”
Caroline pauses.
“He was dying of Tuberculois.”
Virginia replies.
“A year later he joined Lama Ganga and Rangjung Rikpe Dorje’s nephew whom had previously been sent here to establish a monastic seat for his Karma Kagyu sect.”
Virginia replies.
“In an interesting side note, regarding Europe, His Holiness had asked Khenpo Tsultrim Gyamtso Rinpoche to do the same there, but he asked instead to be allowed to establish what is Kamalashila Institute in Germany.”
Virginia replies.
“Don’t quote me on it though.”
Caroline adds.
“I heard the same story.”
Blinde Schildpad butts in.
“You know, I don’t think we should throw terms like “breaking samaya” around. Never attribute to malice… and all that.”
He sighs and continues.
“After all, Situ Rinpoche and Shamar Rinpoche were not only discovered and enthroned by Rangjung Rigpa’i Dorje, they were basically brought up by him.”
Virginia replies.
“Your point being?”
Blinde Schildpad continues.
“You can’t write off either Shamar Rinpoche or Situ Rinpoche as self-serving crooks, without saying the 16th Karmapa was easily fooled and, well… a bad teacher.”
An uncomfortable silence descends on the plate of cookies.
Blinde Schildpad says.
“Alls I’m saying is that the main task facing us now is to evolve from card-carrying, bumper sticker sticking, prayer flag hanging Buddhists into grown up Dharma practitioners, who are fully aware that the world is a messy place but still suffused with Bodhichitta.”
He grabs a cookie.
“It ain’t about you and me, or about Thaye Dorje and Orgyen Thrinley, or even about the late, great 16th Karmapa. It’s about the benefit of all beings. We can’t improve samsara, folks. It ain’t even really real!”
Virginia replies.
“I have it on good authority that Shamar Rinpoche violated his Samaya.”
Caroline replies.
“She’s right.”
Caroline pauses.
“It was our Rinpoches who went there.”
Virginia replies.
“Thrangu Rinpoche himself accused Shamar Rinpoche of violating his samaya when Rinpoche refused to go along with their plans.”
Caroline replies.
“Shamar Rinpoche was dead to us.”
Caroline adds.
“Or we were going to Vajra hell.”
Sally replies.
“It sounds like what happened with Bardor Tulku.
Caroline replies.
“I had never seen Rinpoche in Vajra hell mode before.”
Virginia replies.
“Someone murdered Jamgon Kongtrul.”
Caroline replies.
“We don’t know that.”
Sally replies.
“Murder?”
Good one! Have another cookie!
iyi…….. reply to blinde schlidpad
I wondered what had happened to our hunter of samaya breaker? I forgot his name.
Retired since the death of Shamarpa ?
Jonathan replies.
“I was there, in India, when the shit hit the fan.”
Jonathan continues.
“I had been asked to develop a digital font for Tibetan script.”
“The death of Jamgon Kongtrul set the tone for what followed.”
Allen replies.
“It wasn’t safe.”
Jonathan replies.
“That was the thinking at the time.”
Sally replies.
“I was told the split between Shamar and Situ Rinpoches was over who got to choose the 17th Karmapa.”
Caroline replies.
“If that was the issue it wouldn’t have played out like it did.”
Virginia replies.
“Jamgon Kongtrul was supposed to settle the matter.”
Caroline replies.
“That’s the story at least.”
Sally replies.
“How did Jamgon Kongtrul end up dead than?”
Jonathan replies.
“At the time I was told Shamar Rinpoche had him killed.”
Sally replies.
“That explains why Thrangu Rinpoche was in Vajra Hell mode.”
Caroline replies.
“I had never seen Rinpoche like this before.”
It is not only this prominent place.
“Over 900 Buddhist centers and monasteries of the Karma Kagyu lineage in 69 countries who follow H.H. the 17th Karmapa Trinley Thaye Dorje who was recognized by H.H. the 14th Shamarpa Mipham Chokyi Lodro.” (kagyu.net, @ Karmapa Charitable Trust)
Virginia replies.
“See.”
Virginia replies.
“This is why we don’t talk about Thaye Dorje.”
Sally replies.
“What’s wrong with learning from the French experience?”
Jonathan replies.
“Ogyen Trinley Dorje isn’t the 17th Karmapa for a lot of Karma Kagyu.”
Allen replies.
“I want to know why we have no federation of Karma Kagyu centers?”