The latest discussion of the Ogyen Trinley Dorje sex scandal

Dear readers,

Can we now say without fear of contradiction that the 16th Karmapa, Rangjung Rikpe Dorje, was the last of his kind, the last Karmapa of a free Tibet, the last Karmapa of what we today call the Karma Kagyu sect of Tibetan Buddhism, a religion once practiced by generations of Tibetans, a casualty of China’s genocidal occupation of Tibet?

I think so.

If you aren’t there yet, as a senior disciple of Khenpo Karthar Rinpoche, my guru, a creature of said Karma Kagyu sect, I feel your pain in having to see the shame he and his fellow creatures of Thrangu Rinpoche have since the passing of the 16th Karmapa thirty five years ago brought upon our Karma Kagyu lineage, a legacy which we as dharma practitioners hold above all else as our own as to pass onto future generations of dharma practitioners, to have to consider these latest revelations pertaining to the sexual misconduct of Ogyen Trinley Dorje, China’s billionaire Karmapa.

Here’s the latest discussion of this difficult subject which I have repurposed here from the comment section of this blog in the hope that you will as I have, bring them to your practice, your guru yoga, as generations of Karma Kagyu before us have suffered the shortcomings of samsara which the guru represents in our lineage, that which so distinguishes us from all other forms of Buddhism practiced today, what Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche so aptly called the Mishap lineage of Tibetan Buddhism.

We begin with Chodron’s comment.

Several times I suggested to OTD that he marry NP, publicly. “I have lied but actually this is my wife”. I have no problem with a married K17, I think few people do. But it’s the lying that bothers me. It also means NP can be pushed around at will, depending on whether there is a need for her or not. You should see her burning and suffering when he jokes around about other women during his teachings (e.g. in Sarnath). It is unfair. She can’t get up and say “Cut the crap, I am your partner”.

From Martin we have the following.

So, why doesn’t HHGK take some advice from Ponlop Rinpoche. Heck, Karmapa could change his name to Danny and marry Ngodup Palzom- maybe have a baby or two.
It is incredibly telling that he still only hold novice vows.

From Ana we have the following.

Moreover, “genyen” or “novice” vows can be taken in two ways: lay and monastic: no sex at all (novice) or no sexual abuse (the so-called 4 1/2 vows) (lay).
By the way, K15 was married.

And we conclude with a final comment from Chodron on this most difficult to read discussion of Ogyen Trinley Dorje’s shameful sexual misconduct.

I also suggested to OTD to marry NP off to some lama and marry a new woman: like this, he would not need to admit he has been lying.

Regarding KTD’s response to date.

We have Seth’s comment.

I’d go up the chain of command, Bill, and ask the KTD leadership if they have any insights as to the nature of this sex scandal. It’s either a regular sex scandal or a sex scandal involving incest.
http://www.kagyu.org/ktd/contacts.php
One can also email Lama Yeshe Gyamtso, he’s probably good for a leak (lord knows he would be aware of this given his access to Karmapa).

And we have from Linda the following comment.

I sent an email to this Khenpo Karma Tenkyang and also the operations manager, Nelson, regarding the sex scandals to which you and Ana are alluding.
I requested them to issue a statement here.
Hopefully they will be able to clarify the story about Ngodup Palzom.

Wednesday I will be having the battery in my defibrillator replaced and, if need be, a third lead to connect said device to my left ventricle.

I’ve been having trouble with one of the leads but we won’t know if I need a third lead until my electrocardiologist gets a closer look at it.

I should be home tomorrow after the procedure.

If I need the third lead I will have to stay overnight for observation.

After my heart attack in 2009 my prognosis was hopeless.

That I have the excellent quality of life I today enjoy is nothing less than a miracle, which I without hesitation credit to the blessings of my guru, Khenpo Karthar Rinpoche, and the Karma Kagyu lineage which he has entrusted me to pay forward to the next generation of hard cases of the Mishap lineage for whom how we endure the shortcomings of samsara is the measure of our dharma practice as Karma Kagyu.

So it’s back to the charnel ground yet again for me.

Keep the faith.

I have and forever will.

Karmapa Chenno!

Bill

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17 Comments

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17 responses to “The latest discussion of the Ogyen Trinley Dorje sex scandal

  1. Ani Jinpa Lhamo

    Stay well, our prayers are with you!

  2. Martin

    So, any news?

    I take it you are okay, Bill. Has KTD issued a response? Are they even aware that this blog exists? I mean that not as an insult, but more as a way of expressing some surprise that this isn’t being discussed openly. Even here.

    Is there any way to determine what the traffic has been like over the past two weeks?

    • Martin,

      I’m off to the hospital, my charnel ground, as we speak to meditate and get the battery changed in my defibrillator.

      By the numbers this is getting the necessary traction to achieve my goals as a blogger.

      This month I will have generated over 400,000 views over the course of the past three and a half years.

      Last month saw over 10, 000 views which is above what I need per month to generate over a 100, 000 views per year.

      The “Ogyen Trinley Dorje sex scandal” meme is out there, regardless of whether or not KTD is aware of it as such.

      Their participation in this process is irrelevant as far as the Internet is concerned.

      Anyway, I have to get to the hospital.

      Keep me in your thoughts.

      Karmapa Chenno!

      Bill

  3. First off, how do we know this Chodren person is on the level, and not just some idiot obsessed with casting dirt on the Karmapa and his work, which would make him a favorite of yours immediately. It’s all innuendo unless there’s some evidence.

  4. Ani Jinpa Lhamo

    Hi Bill,
    Could you please delete the above? Thanks!

    • Jinny,

      My pleasure.

      Bill

      • Ani Jinpa Lhamo

        Bill, the porno ist still up and a couple of lengthy, thoughtful comments have evidently been deleted, including one with a link to “Dialogue Ireland” that I wanted to check out.

        • Jinny,

          I deleted the porno and found the the lengthy comment you wanted to read, I think, and hopefully restored it.

          My apologies.

          I have a strict “Chienlit” policy, to borrow a phrase from Charles DeGaulle, when it comes to comments to my blog.

          “La réforme oui, la chie-en-lit non.”

          “Reform – yes, shit in bed – no.”

          Over my many years I have had far to many people “shit in my bed,” here, so to speak, to be otherwise.

          As a lifelong lefty I am obviously not a big fan of Charles DeGaulle but when it comes to to my blog I am as much a hard ass as he was when it comes to the comments that I allow to appear here, to the extreme I might add.

          This isn’t a message board.

          In 2006 I had a message board on MySpace, “The Reluctant Lama”, which went viral.

          It was a huge success, thanks in no small part, to my liberal attitude towards the people I allowed to post to it, the endless back and forth between myself and all comers which readers so gravitate towards on the Internet.

          There are people that I do not allow to post comments here regardless of the merit of what they have to say.

          For example, there is a reader of this blog who posted a a very thoughtful comment here yesterday in response to my post about being a senior disciple of Khenpo Karthar Rinpoche.

          The person had disrespected me in a previous comment which is enough to have your comment deleted by me here.

          This is the most common reason I delete comments here.

          If a person goes there with me but once they will not get a second chance to post a comment here.

          In the name of not wanting to appear thin skinned I have in the past allowed people to disrespect me here, turned the other cheek, to borrow a phrase from Christianity, and have invariably regretted having done so when all has been said and done.

          Sadly.

          I delete comments that I have no cause to delete other than I don’t trust the person posting the comment to not “shit” in my bed as such.

          I regret this very much.

          You, Jinny, are on a very short list of people I trust here, for lack of a better word.

          Speaking of trust, I don’t trust “Ana” or “Chodron” comments about Ogyen Trinley Dorje and his sister.

          That being said, being the enemy of my enemy, the Karma Kagyu sect, there is in my opinion no greater threat to a free society than religion, is my enemy, I used their comments to further my agenda as it pertains to illustrate said religions deliberate lack of transparency when it comes to its leader, Ogyen Trinley Dorje, which I find so reprehensible.

          Absent transparency, the freedom to get up in our guru’s business, the guru yoga we practice as Karma Kagyu is impossible.

          You cannot suffer a guru whom you cannot question.

          We have this from the example of how Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche himself as guru transmitted the Karma Kagyu lineage to
          his disciples.

          Rinpoche, as guru, hid nothing from his disciples, and this is the standard by which I find what the Karma Kagyu sect is doing with Ogyen Trinley Dorje, its embargo of anything pertaining to him unless it comes from it, so problematic as a dharma practitioner of the Karma Kagyu lineage.

          Without the freedom to get up in Ogyen Trinley Dorje’s business, where his money comes from, China, his relationship with his sister, and so on, our guru yoga, visualizing him as Vajradhara, our invocation and dissolution into the four bodies, which we absorb into ourselves upon completion has no blessing, is something other than guru yoga which benefits nobody other than the Karma Kagyu sect, our enemy as such.

          BTW. Ron, if you read this, don’t post in ALL CAPS and I will consider allowing your comments to appear here despite our getting off on the wrong foot previously.

          Bill

          • Ani Jinpa Lhamo

            Thank you for the clarification, I did find the disappearance puzzling, but now I understand about the “piss-en-lit” problem. I still can’t find the deleted comments, but don’t bother any more about them, you have other things to do! And I want to thank you for your trust in me!

  5. Martin

    Indeed.

    This blog may be hitting below the belt, but that image is just obscene and renders nil any credibility to an argument made here.

    I would say, additionally, that right now might be a good time for there to be proof of any of the allegations you are leveling at HHGK. Otherwise, images like this run the risk of discrediting any points made here no matter how valid they may appear.

    As the accuser the burden of proof is, unfortunately, upon your shoulders alone with accusations like this. Someone told me that you used to be in touch with Ponlop Rinpoche on Twitter back in the Elephant Journal days. Any chance of a confirmation, or a nudge in a direction from him. You’d certainly be offering him a chance to be a rebel if he were able to confirm this.

    I realize your heart is weak and future health may be uncertain and that reviewing the comments here may make you feel uneasy, but I pray that Bill the Fighter comes through and knocks this story out of the park.

    • I think Bill has larger concerns than deleting comments by obvious trolls. Also, the comment being obvious trolling – I fail to see how it detracts from any credibility there may or may not be to the discussion.

      What does speak towards credibility is the lack of transparency with the identities of ‘Ana’ and ‘Chodron’. Both have made comments that imply a close relationship with HH. With more information, their comments are what they are.

      That being said, the allegations being true or false doesn’t change my practice.

      • Karma Tashi Namgyal,

        We live in the appearance of things, in the case of Ogyen Trinley Dorje, the fact that he appears to have been having a sexual relationship with his “sister”, presumably not his biological sister, but a woman whom, as was the case with Karmapas past according to Ana, for the sake of appearances represented to us as his sister, all the while lying to us, an all too common failing of men whom derive their power adn influence from religions they represent, in this case the Karma Kagyu sect of Tibetan Buddhism.

        This is but the way of the world and should come as no surprise to any of us, precisely why it was in the 18th century that we as a people relegated such “religions” as the Karma Kagyu sect and men such as Ogyen Trinley Dorje to the dust heap of history.

        As such all I have done here with this blog is take out the garbage as such.

        I need not prove anything that I have blogged here about the accusations made against Ogyen Trinley Dorje by Chodron and Ana as it pertains to his having a sexual relationship with a woman he claims to be his sister.

        As a religion in our society the burden of proof is on the Karma Kagyu sect and Ogyen Trinley Dorje himself as leader of said religion to prove to the public at large, readers of this blog, that he is what he has represented himself to be, a monk in good standing vis à vis vows of celibacy.

        And not the other way around.

        Let us not forget that both here and in France we had revolutions in the 18th century to rid ourselves of religions such as the Karma Kagyu sect and men such as Ogyen Trinley Dorje and the pernicious effects of their spiritual materialism upon a free society in which it is considered to be self evident that all men and women in our society are equal as far as far we as a society is concerned.

        In India this is not the case.

        In India the Karma Kagyu sect is above such concerns, as is Ogyen Trinley Dorje.

        As far as I am concerned, in a free society, the burden of proof is upon the Religion and its creatures, the Karma Kagyu sect and Ogyen Trinley Dorje, to as it pertains to what Ana and Chodron claim to be going on between himself and his “sister” to prove to us that as head of the Karma Kagyu sect his conduct has been beyond reproach vis à vis our presumption that he is a celibate monk beyond reproach as he has represented himself to us as being.

        Bill

        Bill

    • Martin,

      In a free society the burden of proof is upon the religion and its creatures to prove that it is as it represents itself to be.

      Unlike as in India, here and in France we had revolutions to make this so, to establish that no Religion in our society has a role to play in it other than as a matter of conscience, the personal beliefs of an individual.

      We are talking about a religion, and its leader, and as such it cannot be other than this in a free society.

      This is not a matter of law other than the fact that the law protects us from the pernicious effects of religions and their creatures by protecting our right to speak out against a religion such as the Karma Kagyu sect and its leader Ogyen Trinley Dorje if our conscience so demands us to in good faith do so.

      It is Ponlop Rinpoche, as a creature of the Karma Kagyu sect, that needs to reach out to us to address this matter.

      Not the other way around.

      Rinpoche has two issues he must speak to, Ogyen Trinley Dorje’s personal conduct vis à vis his presumed celibacy, and the Karma Kagyu sect’s collaboration with the Chinese Government’s genocidal occupation of Tibet which it has so benefited from since Thrangu Rinpoche collaborated with said government to make Ogyen Trinley Dorje 17th Karmapa.

      We have reason to suspect that something is up with Ogyen Trinley Dorje and his so called sister.

      We have reason to suspect that there is something not right about the Karma Kagyu sect’s finances.

      The Rinpoches of the Karma Kagyu sect and its creature must speak to these issues to our satisfaction.

      Both of these issues, thanks to the Internet, require of said sect and its creatures to speak to them.

      Thanks to how the Internet works in a free society these issues are not going to go away for it, ever, unless this happens.

      Bill

  6. Martin

    I think a reasonable explanation as to why Ngodup Palzom sleeps with so many Rinpoches and is passed around, “like a pack of cigarettes” as you say, is because of the historical norm of fraternal polyandry in Tibet:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyandry_in_Tibet

  7. Kent Nelson

    Sometimes I think a good fight accomplishes more than all the learning in the world.

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