The 16th Karmapa chose to pass into Parinirvana here for a reason

Dear Readers,

I submit for your consideration that there are those of us that believe that Religion and Enlightenment are mutually exclusive and those of us that believe otherwise.

In the response of Warrenz, to our discussion here of why Ogyen Trinley Dorje is in India, to destabilize Sikkim, we have the example of someone who believes otherwise.

That wasn’t true 16 years ago and it still isn’t. Sad to see Shamarpa’s creatures peddling the same lies he used to try to turn the karma kagyu into a family business.

I wouldn’t fret over much. The letter and the demonstration are all to do with SIkkimese politics. Again you show a woeful lack of understanding of regional politics in this regard, Bill . it is the politicians of the Sikkimese govt who are behind this.

Mindful of the votes of the large numbers of Sikkimese who support Karmapa and also of the tourist dollars that he would generate for the region. Having Karmapa take up residence in Sikkim (or even just visit) would be a big boost to the local economy.

If Karmapa is allowed to visit Sikkim (and I’ve heard rumors of early August as a possible date) it will most likely be to Gyaltsabpa’s Ralang Monastery. If it happens at all. The letter that started this may well have been leaked by the Sikkimese govt in order to appease a big pro-Karmapa rally in Gangtok that happened shortly after.

There may be no substance to it.
A visit by Karmapa would also mean that the other candidates could expect to be able to visit Sikkim too, I suppose.

The above is nothing but the kind of gossip typical of those of us that believe that Religion and Enlightenment are compatible.

It sounds so well informed that it could plausibly be true if you are inclined to believe in such gossip.

In the South China Sea the Chinese Government built islands out of reefs to claim that waters claimed by the Philippines were theirs.

In Sikkim, as in Occupied Tibet, it has used Religion, Sectarianism, the Karma Kagyu sect to claim what once was free Tibet and Sikkim, today part of India, to be part of China.

It worked in Tibet.

It remains to be seen if it will work in Sikkim.

Regardless, we who believe Religion and Enlightenment are mutually exclusive are not fooled.


Buddhism is no different than any other Religion in this regard

As impressive as the gossip about Ogyen Trinley Dorje’s presence in India may seem the facts of the matter are available for anyone of us so inclined to examine them to draw our own conclusions.

China’s machinations of the past thirty-five years vis à vis its relationship with the Karma Kagyu sect of Tibetan Buddhism since the passing of the 16th Karmapa in 1981 is a fact.

Ogyen Trinley Dorje was recognized as 17th Karmapa by by China.
How this happened is a fact.

Just as how His Holiness came to choose to pass into Parinirvana is a fact.




Filed under Buddhism

3 responses to “The 16th Karmapa chose to pass into Parinirvana here for a reason

  1. Jane

    I understand why India is slow in allowing OTD to visit Sikkim. China is very focused on expanding its territory and would love to get its claws on Sikkim. Having their Karmapa in Rumtek would strengthen China’s claim to Sikkim.

    • Karma Tsering

      Warrenz is a creature of Thrangu Rinpoche. He just finished an extended retreat with me in Crestone, Colorado at Thrangu Rinpoche’s retreat center there.

      Anyway, just remember this when you read his posts.

      • Dear readers,

        Please note that whoever “Warrenz” may be his comments are representative of how most Karma Kagyu I have known over the past thirty five years think about the machinations of the Chinese Government which made Ogyen Trinley Dorje 17th Karmapa of the Karma Kagyu sect of Tibetan Buddhism.

        It never happened.

        In 2016 we are the few, those of us for whom Religion and Enlightenment are mutually exclusive, which is fine by me as a dharma practitioner.

        It has always been so in my experience.

        Our lineage is not a Religion.

        That being said the comments of those whom think otherwise are welcome here.

        We need not take our differences personally, which is not welcome here.

        We need not go there.

        It matters not who Warrenz is, or is not.

        This being the Internet there are those of us who prefer otherwise, who can’t resist the temptation to mix it up here in the comments section.

        Warrenz is not such a person.


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