In the aftermath of Kagyu Monlam 2017 what’s next for OTD as 17th Karmapa?

The Panama Papers and JKR4th’s apostasy, two hitherto separate scandals, became one at OTD’s Kagyu Monlam this week.

It should be a given that Chinese money has no place in Tibetan Buddhism.

That being said OTD has been taking money from these people to pay for his Kagyu Monlam prayer festival since 2007.

OTD could have come clean with us last year when the Panama Paper scandal broke.

OTD chose otherwise.

Last year JKR4th didn’t just decide he didn’t want to be a monk anymore.

It turns out JKR4th quit the whole shebang, it wasn’t that he decided he didn’t want to be a monk anymore.

OTD could have come clean with us last year when the JKR4th scandal broke.

OTD chose otherwise.

The Panama Papers and JKR4th’s apostasy, two hitherto separate scandals, became one at OTD’s Kagyu Monlam this week.

I submit the above as written for your consideration here.



Filed under Buddhism

19 responses to “In the aftermath of Kagyu Monlam 2017 what’s next for OTD as 17th Karmapa?

  1. Kek Looks pretty busy. This will probably fill in as the year progresses. You can always refer to it.

  2. Bill you are bang on. Dear dharma friends it is about time everyone even the trolls under the bridge started asking OTD some tough questions. The truth is there just waiting to come out.


    • Kek

      Tibet is part of China. Most of the Karmapa’s followers reside in countries which have Chinese currency as the default, this is why their donations are in Chinese currencies. The Panama papers indicate no wrong doing on the part of the Karmapa or those connected with him or his lineage. The website with the leaks states that there is no indication of guilt. Jamgon Kongtrul didn’t want to be a monk. He wanted to be a doctor and is still a Buddhist… The only “abuse” indicated was that he was taken from his home at a young age. He is welcome to come back apparently. He expressed that he was still devoted to Buddhism and loves his teachers. Not sure why you are trying to make this into something more than it is.

      • This if for you QP. It appears that My troll is your troll for the moment. Just let me know when you are tired of the back and forth with these people.

      • Oh kek,

        People who use such accounts do so in order to avoid paying taxes in the countries in which they reside. Not paying tax is illegal, do you remember the film The Godfather? It’s a good albeit Hollywood example that you can do whatever you want just pay your taxes and Uncle Sam is ok.


        • J. R. "Bob" Dobbs

          Not necessarily. Not that offshore accounts can’t be used for secretive activity. I think there were some laws that didn’t let the Karmapa use Indian banks for certain amounts of money because of his refugee status. There is no evidence of wrong doing.

          Some people abuse pain killers but that doesn’t mean everyone who uses them is abusing them.

          I’m pretty curious about the personal vendetta some followers of this blog have against Ogyun Trinley Dorje. I’m sure some of it has to be because of competition from Thaye Dorje but some of it seems personal as well. Like a crisis of faith happened. What are the real details here as it is the o my thing people on this blog could have actual access to.

        • J. R. "Bob" Dobbs

          Oh yeah, this is my other alias since all of the Kek posts were being deleted.

          I’m not sure if religious organizations pay taxes in India or not. I’m not really sure what was going on with their money.

          The topic of ethics in banking and the fairness of taxes is a whole other conversation. For instance is it ethical to have investments in a hedge fund that is used to fund companies that build bombs which are dropped on innocent people just because you pay taxes on it? As long as the Kagyu Monlam isn’t investing in fur farms or bomb factories I don’t really see that there is an issue from a Buddhist perspective.

  3. ROFL

    In his concluding speech OTD even thanked Lama Chodrak. If I am not mistaken, this is the person running the offshore account. He still seems to organize the Monlam and receives praise for it. Unbelievable. I am not sure that the reason for the offshore account is necessarily tax evasion. It might also be personal enrichment by some individuals involved, might be part of a strategy to work around the Foreign Contribution Regulation Act (FCRA) in India, or might have even served (/still serves?) a honest motive one would agree with when explained (which I doubt). Until today, one has not learned what the need for the offshore account actually was/is. It gives the impression that the monlam makes a surplus, which, for some reason, has been tucked away while further donations were continually collected. In any case, it does not seem to be in line with the way that donations are usually dealt with in Buddhism…

    • J. R. "Bob" Dobbs

      If it isn’t illegal then why would they stop? As far as I can tell the Indian government is not pursuing this. The only people who seem to care are a handful of Americans which makes me question their motives.

  4. Dobbs, cannot answer my question about China. Must be that he thinks political and communist influence in the dharma is a good thing?


  5. ROFL

    I think it is not only Americans (and, btw, I am not American) who consider the link between China and OTD as problematic:

    As to the problem of the Foreign Currency Contribution Regulation Act (FCRA). It is in place in order to prevent foreign powers to finance activities detrimental to the national interest of India. If the Kagyu Monlam Ltd. offshore account was part of a workaround for the FCRA, it would indeed be a punishable deed. India doesn’ t take such things lightly, particularly not if China is involved. In this respect, it is not so important if the source of the money is individual donations or the Chinese Government. We should not forget the foreign currency seizure of 2011. Afterwards, different courts battled each other on the question of whether OTD should be persecuted or not – and I am not sure if it already ended. As we all know, court cases in India can drag on forever.

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