How do Tibetans reconcile “Separatist” Dalai Lama and “living Buddha” 17th Karmapa?

If you are Chinese:

If you are American:

Someone please explain to people like myself in the West who don’t get how Tibetans can’t seem to see what for us are the obvious  differences between the Dalai Lama and the 17th Karmapa in their Buddhism, the most obvious being their relationship with China.



Filed under Buddhism

4 responses to “How do Tibetans reconcile “Separatist” Dalai Lama and “living Buddha” 17th Karmapa?

  1. I think – and have to admit that I have no proofs for that – the discord between the Dalai Lama and the Chinese is a media event. Behind the scenes things look differently. Its like Trump and Russia: in the media we read they are now enemies. Luckily, behind the scenes, they seem to work tohether against ISIS now (if this is no Fake news 🙂
    What you think? Do you think its just by chance that Dalai Lama brother travelled to China precisely the same June 1992 “Karmapa” Ogyen Trinle came to Tsurphu?

      • Huhu!
        Often in nowadays politics on the political scene the parties pretent to have differences – but in fact they do exactly the same politics. In France Holande did the social cuts the right was not able to do and Schröder in Germany did the same. The Dalai Lama might oppose the Chiense, but his people – like his brother cannot. The Chinese can blackmail them easily to close monasteries etc. As for the visit of Gyalo Tondrub (GT) to China:
        In April 1992, the Chinese Ambassador in New Delhi contacted him and told him that the Chinese Government’s position in the past had been “conservative”, but that it was willing to be “flexible” if the Tibetans were prepared to be “realistic”. He invited Thondup to visit Beijing. Around the same time Situ prepared the search of Ogyen Trinle (OTD). In May the search party reached out to East Tibet to “find” Ogyen Trinle whom Situpa had already met on his trip to Beijing in 1991 (you remember he presented the “letter of prophecy” only in 1992). On May 5th 1992 there was a meeting between the Tsurphu Labrang and Chinese functionaries.On June 6th Situ and Gyaltsab went to Dharamsala to meet the Dalai Lama (DL) (whom they called in Rio subsequently, told them the Kagyü regents “unanimously had choosen OTD as Karmapa, which was a blatant lie. Unaware of this the DL accepted the choice). On June 6th Gyalo Thindub (GT) sets off for the Chinese capital where he met functionaries of the United Work Department of the Chinese “Communist” Party. Situ’s right hand in this affair, Akong, was in close link to them since the years at this point.
        On June 15th Ogyen Trinle reaches Tsurphu. Its up tp you to decide whether this is just coincidence.

        The level of exchange between GT and the Chinese was intense:
        “He said during his meetings with the Chinese leaders in 1992 he told them that he was thinking of abandoning his efforts to find a solution because he did not see any movement on the Chinese side. The Chinese side asked him not to do this and said it takes time and effort to kick the ball through the goal post. When he was in Hong Kong he received a phone call saying a message would be waiting for him at the Chinese Embassy in New Delhi. When he returned to India from that trip (accompanied by Sonam Topgyal, a former chairman of the Tibetan Cabinet), he was informed by the Chinese Ambassador in New Delhi that Dharamsala should think of moving the Tibetan Government-in-Exile to Lhasa to strengthen the government of the Tibet Autonomous Region.” (quoted from: Even though supposedly the Chinese threw back their proposition, it looks like there were seroius deals done in the meeting. between the Beijing and Dharamsala.
        In June 1993 the Chinese announced that Ogyen Trinle will be the sucessor of the Dalai Lama.
        On June 15th Ogyen Trinle reaches Tsurphu. Its up tp you to decide whether this is just coincidence.
        Situ meeting OTD in 1991: Mick Brown, Dance of 17 Lives, and personal account of OTD.
        Thondub contacts with Beijing:
        OTD sucessor Dalai lama: Am Rande der Konferenz, Neue Presse, (newspaper/Vienna) June 17th1993.

  2. Sam

    I don’t believe any sort of ism should be connected to any political entity whatsoever. This idea of Buddhism as a state sponsored religion in China, as it was in Tibet – all with the supposed goal of uniting the masses is a dangerous idea. It has always been and always will be a bad idea.
    The only path is the one that liberates, right?
    I don’t see liberation here, in the image of the beast so to speak. Not for Tibetans, not for Americans, not for the Chinese people.
    It’s a dangerous mix, the pit bull that kills spirituality and the better part of being a human being. I might be shaking a dead corpse at this point but I would advise anyone to avoid these planned and prettied up gatherings. It’s like dressing up the grim reaper as the easter bunny.
    It’s also an insult to any actual lama, monk, lay person or human being.

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