China plays its Panchen Lama card in Occupied Tibet

Dear Readers,

From the people who made Ogyen Trinley Dorje 17th Karmapa.

A fellow reader shared the following
“In Tibet, A Long-Banned Buddhist Rite Takes Place, But Not Everyone’s Pleased” for your consideration.

This has nothing to do with the dharma.


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For a disciple of a Karmapa there is nothing a Karmapa does that is not their business

Dear Reader,

Your fellow reader Warrenz had the following to say regarding the appropriate relationship between a Disiple and a Karmapa.

“Where he goes or why is none of my or your business.”

We were discussing how there is no reason that has anything to do with the dharma for a Karmapa to visit Sikkim.

A disciple of a Karmapa does not require a Karmapa to visit them.

Those monks in Sikkim whom have made a spectacle of themselves by going on a hunger strike are not disciples of a Karmapa.

No disciple of a Karmapa requires a Karmapa to visit them.

That being said this is not to say that a disciple of a Karmapa does not care what a Karmapa does.

For a disciple of a Karmapa there is nothing a Karmapa does that is not their business.


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Does the disciple of a Karmapa require a Karmapa to visit them?

Dear Readers,

Your fellow reader Warrenz suggested the following reason for a Karmapa to visit Sikkim.

“However, visiting to minister to his students in Sikkim would constitute a valid Dharma reason to go there, would it not?”

A disciple of a Karmapa does not require a Karmapa to visit them.

There is no reason that has anything to do with the Dharma for a Karmapa to visit Sikkim.


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Why would a Karmapa even want to visit Sikkim?

Dear readers,

The 16th Karmapa put Sikkim behind him when he chose to pass into Parinirvana here.

There is denying this fact.

After the 16th Karmapa left Tibet he never looked back.

It happened.


Why would a Karmapa take two steps forward only to turn around and reverse course?

There is no reason for a Karmapa to do so.

At least no reason that has anything to do with the dharma.



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A Karmapa need not intend to benefit sentient beings to be of benefit to them

Dear Readers,

That the 16th Karmapa transmitted his lineage to Americans is a fact.

It happened.

This is what he came to America to do.

That he chose to pass into Parinirvana here confirms this fact.

A Karmapa need not intend to benefit sentient beings to be of benefit to them.


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Did the 16th Karmapa choose the time and place of his Parinirvana?

Dear Readers,

If the 16th Karmapa did not choose the time and place of his Parinirvana he would be the first Karmapa to not do so, at least according to all accounts of the lives of Karmapas past.

There is a reason for this.

A Karmapa whom cannot choose where and when he passes into Parinirvana would also not be able to choose to reborn.

To say nothing of being able to predict before passing into Parinirvana where and when he will be reborn.

There can be no question that the 16th Karmapa chose to pass into Parinirvana in Sikkim.

There can be no question that the 16th Karmapa did indeed choose to pass into Parinirvana here in the United States.



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The 16th Karmapa chose not to pass into Parinirvana in Sikkim for a reason 

Dear readers,

The 16th Karmapa received no palliative care here in 1981.

This is well documented.

To suggest otherwise is gossip.

His Holiness chose not to pass into Parinirvana for a reason.

There is no disputing that this is so.



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The 16th Karmapa chose to pass into Parinirvana here for a reason

Dear Readers,

I submit for your consideration that there are those of us that believe that Religion and Enlightenment are mutually exclusive and those of us that believe otherwise.

In the response of Warrenz, to our discussion here of why Ogyen Trinley Dorje is in India, to destabilize Sikkim, we have the example of someone who believes otherwise.

That wasn’t true 16 years ago and it still isn’t. Sad to see Shamarpa’s creatures peddling the same lies he used to try to turn the karma kagyu into a family business.

I wouldn’t fret over much. The letter and the demonstration are all to do with SIkkimese politics. Again you show a woeful lack of understanding of regional politics in this regard, Bill . it is the politicians of the Sikkimese govt who are behind this.

Mindful of the votes of the large numbers of Sikkimese who support Karmapa and also of the tourist dollars that he would generate for the region. Having Karmapa take up residence in Sikkim (or even just visit) would be a big boost to the local economy.

If Karmapa is allowed to visit Sikkim (and I’ve heard rumors of early August as a possible date) it will most likely be to Gyaltsabpa’s Ralang Monastery. If it happens at all. The letter that started this may well have been leaked by the Sikkimese govt in order to appease a big pro-Karmapa rally in Gangtok that happened shortly after.

There may be no substance to it.
A visit by Karmapa would also mean that the other candidates could expect to be able to visit Sikkim too, I suppose.

The above is nothing but the kind of gossip typical of those of us that believe that Religion and Enlightenment are compatible.

It sounds so well informed that it could plausibly be true if you are inclined to believe in such gossip.

In the South China Sea the Chinese Government built islands out of reefs to claim that waters claimed by the Philippines were theirs.

In Sikkim, as in Occupied Tibet, it has used Religion, Sectarianism, the Karma Kagyu sect to claim what once was free Tibet and Sikkim, today part of India, to be part of China.

It worked in Tibet.

It remains to be seen if it will work in Sikkim.

Regardless, we who believe Religion and Enlightenment are mutually exclusive are not fooled.


Buddhism is no different than any other Religion in this regard

As impressive as the gossip about Ogyen Trinley Dorje’s presence in India may seem the facts of the matter are available for anyone of us so inclined to examine them to draw our own conclusions.

China’s machinations of the past thirty-five years vis à vis its relationship with the Karma Kagyu sect of Tibetan Buddhism since the passing of the 16th Karmapa in 1981 is a fact.

Ogyen Trinley Dorje was recognized as 17th Karmapa by by China.
How this happened is a fact.

Just as how His Holiness came to choose to pass into Parinirvana is a fact.



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We now know why Ogyen Trinley Dorje is in India

Dear Readers,

I submit the following from Rolf’s reading of Sikkim Monks on Hunger Strike Demanding Karmapa Visit, for your consideration.

I found the following passage of the article very revealing: “The Denzong Lhadey, a body of monks has meanwhile warned that if the Indian government fails to grant the same, all monks and devotees of the state may be forced to launch a “democratic agitation” and has warned that the government shall be solely responsible for any consequence that may arise out of any future course of action.”

The Denzong Lhadey are Ogyen Trinley Dorje’s creatures in Sikkim.

Their purpose?

To delegitimize the Indian Government in Sikkim.

It has begun.

China has played its Karmapa card.

Why is Ogyen Trinley Dorje in India?

We now know.

It has nothing to do with the dharma.


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China plays its “Karmapa” card in Sikkim to undermine Indian Sovereignty 

Dear Readers,

Rumor has it that in a clear and present threat to Indian Sovereignty creatures of Ogyen Trinley Dorje, China’s Billionaire Karmapa, are positioning themselves on behalf of China’s interests in Sikkim, vis à vis said Karmapa being allowed to establish himself, as a law unto himself, in this part of India which the Chinese government believes, like Tibet, to be part of

Here’s what your fellow readers have been saying on the subject.

A reader known for their attempts to stir up the comment section here in the past, so consider the source, posted a link to after the above subject was broached by an unknown reader that posted a link to something on Facebook about the Indian Government allowing China’s choice for Karmapa to take up residence in Sikkim.

The following is from which I submit for your consideration.

The 17th Gyalwang Karmapa Ogyen Trinley Dorje may finally grace his rightful seat at Rumtek Monastery in Sikkim for the first time in 17 years if an official circular issued by the state government is anything to go by.

A circular issued by the Sikkim Government under the order of the state Governor states that the state has appointed Acharya Tshering Lama of Simick Chandey as the Chairman of the Ecclesiastical Affairs Department for welcoming the spiritual leader in the state. The circular also mentions the young head of Karma Kagyu tradition be accorded a cabinet rank reception.

He is responsible for all the arrangements for the visit and also to make a smooth rightful seating of Karmapa at the monastery.

According to a source, the initiative from the State of Sikkim is a welcoming sign. However, the Karmapa office here has not yet received any confirmation letter from either the Central Tibetan Administration or New Delhi.

The source added that it is just the beginning of a process and it would depend on how and when the appointed official approaches the central government to initiate the process.

The announcement circulating in the social media was made on July 6, coinciding with the birthday of His Holiness the Dalai Lama.

Sikkim government and especially Chief Minister Pawan Kumar Chamling have repeatedly asked the central government to permit Gyalwang Karmapa to visit Rumtek Monastery stating the wish of his followers to see him take his seat there.

Originally built under the guidance of the 12th Karmapa Changchub Dorje in the mid-1700s, Rumtek was rebuilt by the pervious Karmapa after fleeing into exile in 1959. Since, it has been the seat of Karmapa lineage in India.

However, due to the controversy surrounding the real reincarnation of the 16th Karmapa Rangjung Rigpai Dorjee and the mysterious circumstances surrounding the current Karmapa’s escape from Tibet, India has so far prohibited him from visiting Rumtek.

In a recent interview with Times of India, the 31-year old said, “Rumtek Monastery in Sikkim holds special significance for me but I cannot go there due to a dispute. Sikkim is a part of India. It is an integral part of India. Rumtek is the seat of my predecessor. Unfortunately, I have not been able to go. But I do understand there is a court case.”

He also added that he does not understand the reason why he has been denied despite so many requests.

Karmapa Ogyen Trinley Dorjee headed for Rumtek?

From Kate A, presumably not the same person as the reader above, one never really knows here, had this to say in response.

Why does, a Tibetan news site refer to his escape from Tibet as “mysterious”?

Also this is a very interesting article on why India has reasons to be concerned about OTD’s entry to Sikkim:

“At the root of most of the troubles on the Indian side is the Tibetan standoff. For years, the subtlety of Lamaism – the main powerhouse of Tibetan politics – has taken an intricate sectarian context. Tension that has been festering around it for decades is now getting murkier and complex by the day, and this is clearly happening not without Chinese prompting.”

“The third, and most dangerous, trend of all is growing sectarian rifts that are threatening to tear apart Himalayan stability. Suitors of all sorts with deep funding from Chinese-sponsored Buddhist networks are having a field day. They are building their respective sectarian networks while skilfully managing to manipulate Indian laws, buying off influential individuals and local institutions.

In Ladakh, people have been helplessly watching the sectarian game ignited by outsiders. The menace is creating havoc among a people hitherto devoid of any sectarian differences. It is consuming every walk of life, threatening to divide and cripple the society. The situation took a critical turn last summer when the Dalai Lama ordered the Buddhists of Ladakh not to entertain a rival Karmapa, Thaye Trinley Dorje (TTD), during his visit to the region in 2015. The Dalai Lama has not approved TTD and instead recognised Ugyen Trinley Dorje (UTD) as the 17th Karmapa, who also enjoys China’s official recognition. While a majority of outfits in Ladakh followed Dharamshala’s instruction, other sectarian groups barring the Geluk chose to defy the gag and went ahead to welcome TTD. Clearly, other sects including Druk-pa Kagyu, Drikung Kagyu, Ning-ma and even the Sakya sect do not question the spiritual authenticity of TTD altogether. The incident, however, led to a split in the All-Ladakh Gompa (Monastery) Association (LGA), which is equivalent to a Sangha. The LGA office has since been locked to avoid any direct conflict between sects.[8]”

Emerging flashpoint in the Himalayas

From Warrenz, someone familiar to longtime readers of this blog, we have the following comment.

There have been many false dawns in this regard so I would not get too worried/hopeful (depending on your POV).

That said, a visit may be part of the ongoing strategy on the part of the TGIE and the Indian/US Govts to position Karmapa as the interim figurehead of the Tibetans after HHDL’s passing.

Allowing Karmapa to visit Sikkim would be a signal that the Indian Govt is prepared to work with him as the next Tibetan figurehead. The recent US and European visits may have been trust-building exercises for both parties.

I remain unconvinced he will actually visit Rumtek or take possession of the Black Crown. If it did happen, however, it would be a terrible disappointment for Thaye Dorje supporters. But if we have learned anything from the “Karmapa conflict”, it is that the Karmapa is not defined by the monasteries he heads or the relics of the lineage. It would certainly represent a major development in the controversy and the end of the line for any remaining hopes for Thaye Dorje’s candidature. You can bet his lawyers are already on the case.

To which longtime reader Jack Straw had the following to say.

I think the focus on Rumtek is strange. The purity of the place has been defiled by the occupying rogues in robes. It would take a lot of sage burning to make the place fit for either Karmapa.

To which Historix108, another longtime reader replied.

Very well said, Jack. Rumtek should be made a museum.

And in closing, from Warrenz, his response to Historix108.

To tell the truth, Rumtek itself was never the issue although I’m sure Karmapa would like to be free to live at his own monastery rather than be a guest at his present abode.
The physical relics and possessions of the Tsurphu Labrang are the real prize here. Not least, the Vajra Makhut or Black Crown. However, at this stage I think the race is run and there is really no chance of Thaye Dorje (and even less of Dawa Sangpo) being accepted as Karmapa by anyone outside their existing followers even if they did get hold of the relics. The acceptance of HHDL and the TGIE pretty much sealed the deal before Thaye Dorje was even recognized.

For each side though, having their candidate perform the Black Crown ceremony would be seen as the fulfilment of prophesies and removal of any remaining doubt. For the other side, it would be a sad travesty but would be unlikely to shake the faith of those who have seen it through this far.

Well, this is what your fellow readers have had to say on the subject.

My take is that none of this has anything to do with the Dharma and everything to do with the Chinese Government playing its Karmapa card to undermine India’s Sovereignty, the true purpose for it allowing Ogyen Trinley Dorje to be in India in the first place.



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