The person responsible for our forcing Drukpa monasteries in Tibet to convert to the Karma Kagyu is Ogyen Trinley Dorje’s Regent, Situ Rinpoche, the very same Rinpoche who precipitated the so-called Karmapa Controversy with his claim of “discovering” the late Karmapa’s missing prediction letter, secreted away as he would have us believe, in an amulet gifted him by the long deceased 16th Karmapa.
No Regent in our history put more Rinpoches on their thrones than Situ Rinpoche. The Rinpoches in Tibet responsible for these forced conversions were put on their thrones not by Ogyen Trinley Dorje but none other than his Regent, Situ Rinpoche.
Make no mistake, these forced conversions are on Ogyen Trinley Dorje. It is His Holiness who must answer to the world for what amounts to a Human Rights violation committed in his name, but let us not fool ourselves about who is responsible for what has happened, Ogyen Trinley Dorje’s Regent, Situ Rinpoche.
Situ Rinpoche isn’t the first Regent in our history to jam up a Karmapa. The machinations of the 10th Karmapa’s Regent, for example, resulted in the His Holiness being forced into exile by the 5th Dalai Lama. So let us not pretend that nothing like this has ever happened to us before.
This is a Tibetan thing, these forced conversions. They are nothing new to the Buddhism of Tibetans. It is part of their history. We are not Tibetans though, but Tibetan Buddhists, and as such, these forced conversions have no place in our Buddhism.
These forced conversions violate the rights of Tibetans in Tibet. Not only must we own this as Tibetan Buddhists, we can’t just wait for Tibetans to make this right. These forced conversions aren’t who we are as Buddhists.
As Karma Kagyu the time has come for us to stop behaving as if we were the creatures of Tibetans, a bunch of cult members, and insist that Ogyen Trinley Dorje step up and sort these forced conversions to our satisfaction, or else, stop pretending we are Buddhists. If we allow these forced conversions to stand, we will rightly so found to be Buddhists in name only, a bunch of cult members, creatures of Tibetans not worthy of our devotion.
Karmapa Chenno!
Tinfoil Ushnisha 
Can you substatiate your vilification of Situ Rinpoche (aside from “Rogues in Robes” & Indian tabloid stuff)? Wouldn’t it be better to wait for a response from HHGK?
I’ve never read the book. I based this blog on a piece by Peter Lee published in the Asia Times that I read this morning. I came upon a link in the comments of the article someone posted a link to here yesterday. We need not wait for Ogyen Trinley Dorje to respond. At issue is what kind of Buddhist you and I are. We know this much. According to the Drukpa sources, Karma Kagyu Rinpoches with the support of the Chinese government forcibly converted some monasteries of theirs in Tibet, nothing unusual in the Buddhism of Tibetans. I don’t know about you but I’m not down with this, at all. I’d like to think Ogyen Trinley Dorje at some point will see that this is a human rights violation perpetrated by Rinpoches in Tibet whom his regent put in place there during their minority. The days of blaming Shamar Rinpoche are gone forever. Get used to it. Since the cash in the suitcases scandal we have been under a microscope, and rightly so in my opinion. I am a Tibetan Buddhist. This business with the monasteries, makes no sense for us as Buddhists, for a good reason. It has nothing to do with Tibetan Buddhism and everything to do with the Buddhism of Tibetans. The sooner we acknowledge this the better.
Oh Jesus Christ! Bill, you are so full of shit. Nobody cares about your crazy rants. I can’t believe you are still going on about this.
It will be forgotten about in one month’s time.
So says some random Internet sock puppet.
Hehe. I took a break from this drivel with the hopes that Bill would wear himself out.
Alas, you cannot imagine my sense of disbelief that this court jester puffed American Buddhism just keeps going.
I would rather listen to a dog be disemboweled with a cabbage than read the hot and sweaty verbiage of this literary cesspool.
What a goddamn disappointment!
Who cares what I think? According to Twitter Analytics my account generated over the past 28 days over 70,000 impressions. In less than 22 months this blog has generated over 200,000 views. But forget about the facts. The fact that you are posting comments in response to this blog speaks for itself. You care. I always know I’m onto something when you are here. The numbers only confirm this. I can assure you all indications are that people in numbers are going to be reading about what happened an what I think about it until the Ogyen Trinley Dorje comes out with a response. And so on, as long as people on the Internet find what I publish here interesting.
Ego cling much?
Not only do you post your comments anonymously, you go to the extreme of deleting your ISP address, all out of jealously of my success as a Buddhist blogger. In the Vajrayana “ego” isn’t a problem. Dude, you have even posted here pretending to be a woman. What’s with that? Rant away sock puppet. When you are ready to man up and end your little charade you know where to find me, here, killing it. Make no mistake, I nailed it. This post has been very well received. And there will be another to follow, until Ogyen Trinley Dorje makes this right with us. The fact that you have your shorts in a twist only tells me this is something that is going to be of interest to people here for the foreseeable future.
I read the Asia Times article also. Too much hearsay and Indian tabloid journalism for my taste. that being said, we need to flog this issue continually until it gets resolved.
I still think your vilifying Situ is premature.might be another tail wagging the dog situation.
The headline for this post wasn’t “Situ Rinpoche Violates Human Rights in Tibet” out of respect for your feelings for him. I get it. That being said, the Rinpoches responsible for the forced conversions are all part of the very same arrangement Situ Rinpoche came to with the Chinese Government when it recognized Ogyen Trinley Dorje as the 17th Karmapa. This is but the blow back from doing business with the Chinese in Tibet. That it makes Ogyen Trinley Dorje look bad in the West after his European Tour in which he made a point of embracing non-sectarianism is no accident.
what’s even weirder is I heard HHGK say that his mother is Drukpa!
I know. This isn’t who Ogyen Trinley Dorje is as a Buddhist. This is about the Buddhism of Tibetans and their rapprochement with the Chinese Government which allowed for the recognition of Ogyen Trinley Dorje. It is within this context that I read the Asia Times article I cited. Perhaps the Indian Government isn’t being as unreasonable in their suspicions of Situ Rinpoche’s relationship with the Chinese government than some of us would like to think. It is entirely plausible that he cut a deal with them in return for their recognition of Ogyen Trinley Dorje as Karmapa. This is something that warrants a closer look at the very least.
I care.
Thank you.
Could you post the link to the article by Peter Lee in the Asia Times?
Here’s the Asia Times link http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/MB12Df02.html
Thanks!
Finally some acknowledgement http://the17thkarmapa.blogspot.com/2014/09/the gyalwang-drukpas-statement-on.html
That article pretty much sums up everything one needs to know about Tibetan politics. It is so entertwined with religion that I really wonder how we in the West can separate it without becoming embroiled in it. That’s what your blog attempts to do. Too bad not many get it though.
Let us take this business with the monasteries as an opportunity to move forward as Buddhists in our own right by making clear to Ogyen Trinley Dorje that we want nothing to do with such behavior. This is bullshit. Politics is emptiness, emptiness is politics. Our Buddhism is the Vajrayana and in the Vajrayana being political isn’t the problem it is for other Buddhists.
Huh?
Can you clarify?
This sounds like the ruckus a drunk cat would make.
So says some random Internet sock puppet. No, I have no intention of wasting such a person as you. And nor does anyone here expect me to. This is not how we speak to each other.
Well, they have published HHGD’s statement on the official Karmapa blog:
http://the17thkarmapa.blogspot.com/2014/09/the-gyalwang-drukpas-statement-on.html?showComment=1410896786990#c1301166612255814542.
So they are not ignoring it. I think anyone concerned might consider posting in the the comments there.
The official Karmapa blog has posted the statement from HHGD, so at least it is being acknowledged. It would be most effective if as many concerned people as possible place a comment. http://the17thkarmapa.blogspot.com/2014/09/the-gyalwang-drukpas-statement-on.html?showComment=1410896786990#c1301166612255814542
It would be helpful if as many people as possible comment here: http://the17thkarmapa.blogspot.com/2014/09/the-gyalwang-drukpas-statement-on.html?showComment=1410896786990#c1301166612255814542
http://the17thkarmapa.blogspot.com/2014/09/the-gyalwang-drukpas-statement-on.html?showComment=1410896786990#c1301166612255814542
Looks like HHGK’s official blog is taking this on:
http://the17thkarmapa.blogspot.com/2014/09/the-gyalwang-drukpas-statement-on.html#comment-form
That very long article yields no facts about the Drukpa takeovers – only inferences some may choose to make about Situ’s territorial and dynastic ambitions. It simply regurgitates the same old half-truths about Karmapa & Situ’s ties to China. Did you know some indian reporters are paid by others to write bullshit. “Then the government declared that the land on which the Karmapa’s temporary residence stood had actually been acquired illegally. [8] ” What, Gyuto???
Those oddly-rendered quotes from the indian press should be a dead giveaway as to the veracity of the speculation the indian press engaged in when the spotlight was on Karmapa’s loot.
A critique of which can be found here: http://www.elephantjournal.com/2011/03/idiot-wind-naomi-levine/
Thinking of the many shitstorms Karmapa is lumbered with, thanks to his over-eager supporters, too much property and money, i’m reminded of the old tibetan saying ” if you have a sheep, your suffering is as big as a sheep, If you have a horse, ditto, a house, ditto, and so on. Karmapa should take a leaf out of Mingyur Rinpoche’s book and de-camp to the hills.
You can’t understand what happened with the Drukpa monasteries in Tibet without understanding what occurred during Situ Rinpoche’s regency..
On a personal note, if I may be so bold, your posting anonymously here, as I have mentioned before, isn’t working for me. I ask that in your future comments that you share with us not only what you think, but who you are, and why anybody should consider yourself a credible source of information on the subject being discussed. This is my blog. I want to know who I am reading when someone posts a comment here. If you, or anybody else that posts comments here indulge me in this regard, don’t post comments to my blog. Frankly, I find it tedious to read sock puppets such as yourself unwilling to share with us as readers who they are and why something matters to them. I don’t delete comments. That being said, given I have to read them, I prefer that I know who I am reading. I don’t insist, but, frankly, reading “Matilda” I imagine you as someone I need not be reading. From what you have shared to date you have shared nothing of yourself to make me want to read what you have to say about anything. For someone that has posted as many comments as you have here, I know nothing of who you are, and why you post here the comments you post to my blog, which for me, as a reader of this blog’s comments, is pretty lame when you think about it.
Eh, who cares what you think, Bill. The article you posted is four years old and of dubious appellation. We all know you hate Situ and that as a western you feel inferior around Tibetans, but must you subject all of us to the constancy of shoddy research and comments that reveal a lack of mindfulness and mind training?
The example you set reinforces the rumors that you were kicked out of your sociology program as you lacked the intellectual acumen to remain unbiased.
What, my portly inked friend, do you hope to gain from this flog session of a blog?
Do you mean to imply that the stagnation you see within the Karma Kagyu is hubris not unlike what what found in Rome? Is Situ Ronpoche really just a Caligula in disguise? Is this really where you are taking this nonsense?
That’s it? You are going to have to do much better if you wish to post comments here. My chops as a Buddhist blogger are beyond question. People in numbers care what I think. Why should a reader care what you think? Given this effort of yours I see no reason why anyone should care what you have to say about anything here.
For the folks following along at home “Max Bleckman” is that guy that deletes his ISP address. He keeps changing who he posts as here but it’s the same person. He thinks you are stupid enough to fall for such nonsense. I beg to differ. I don’t delete comments. That being said, his comments are not a total waste of our time. When he does comment here it is a good indication that what I have said has struck a nerve with those that don’t support this blog. Judging from the traffic this subject has generated so far this business with the monasteries isn’t going to pass any time soon. That Ogyen Trinley Dorje hasn’t responded to the scandal to date speaks for itself. Such sectarianism has no place in our Buddhism and His Holiness know this. There is nothing he can say at this point that can justify what has happened as far as we are concerned.
That you assume I am male speaks volumes.
So much for objectivity…
😉
Come on David, I’m not Brad Warner. You need to do better than that with me. The jig is up.
“my portly inked friend” KTD trolls have no class
David is not a KTD troll but a guy in California, a techie, and a known troll of Buddhist bloggers. He’s a speculative non-Buddhist who believes in a Buddhism without Buddhists. We all know his type, smart, but unpopular, and this drives him to the Internet to act out his issues. I’m the guy that everyone likes to hang out with at parties, He isn’t. He’s a short, with a bit of a gut himself. He wears glasses. He still has his hair, but he’s showing his age. And he’s obviously desperate for attention. This isn’t the first blog he has trolled and won’t be his last. Since I started outing sock puppets by their ISP addresses we haven’t heard much from KTD’s supporters here.
That’s because there ain’t any KTD supporters who know of your blog. You occupy a very small place in the overall marketplace.
“I’m the guy that everyone likes to hang out with at parties,”
Wow. Nice work.
Btw, how did you guess it was me? You got my name right, but what else is there that you could possibly know about me?
I know your name because you aren’t as clever as you think you are. You are a well known troll of Buddhist blogs.
So why don’t you consider yourself blessed that I christen your blog with my insightful comments?
David, what do you think? Stick to what you know, iOS/Python/PHP design and development, whatever that is.
I know my dharma too, Bill. Been at the feet of many great masters…
David, we both know this has nothing to do with your understanding of the dharma. You are self-described Neo-Stoic who likes to jam up Buddhist personalities such as myself that you deem need to be taken down a notch, as a matter of principle. This is why you are here, you don’t like the cut of my jib. And I don’t care. Nobody here cares what you think of me and your knowledge of the dharma. You aren’t a Tibetan Buddhist. You aren’t Karma Kagyu. You troll Buddhist blogs. This is what you do.
Whatever you say; I still think you don’t know who I am. Got me mixed up with another bloke.
Whatever.
“From what you have shared to date you have shared nothing of yourself to make me want to read what you have to say about anything…..you have shared nothing of yourself to make me want to read what you have to say about anything.” That is patently not true. I have shared quite a lot about my backstory as a Buddhist practitioner. I’ve probably got your back up when i’ve called you to account by showing up some facts that counter your slant on some issues. I understand the fragile male ego. But i’m nobody’s sycophant, on or offline.
The claim of being a sock puppet is just offensive. Definition ‘ A sockpuppet is an online identity used for purposes of deception’ and usually involves multiple identities ‘to make it seem as if scores of people are arguing a point”. The majority of legit posters here don’t use their real names. I guess it just freaks you out that you can’t pin me down. Try letting go -it’s a Buddhist thing.
You boast of your hits but judging by the dwindling number of posters the hits probably emanate from those bot thingys. You’ve pissed off the genuine contributors – Okie Buddhist, William Bainbridge – not just the KTD sockpuppets.
Your blog is a public document, Bill, and if you write crap, then expect other Buddhists to come along and correct you. But what’s too often missing from your blog is a generosity of spirit and that is a real turn-off for genuine Buddhists and their open-hearted fellow-travellers.
Hardly. At this point all that keeps me blogging is the overwhelming popular demand for it. John Inglett and William Bainbridge, two former contributors of comments here, are two men that took stands here as Karma Kagyu in America. They didn’t hide who they were. John in particular stood with me too the bitter end. His teacher being Lama Kathy, I expected him to bail on me much sooner than he did. William Bainbridge was from the beginning a surprise to me, his being a member of the Albuquerque KTC when he first came out in support of this blog. You by comparison have risked nothing of yourself here, and should be ashamed to consider yourself in their company. You lack the courage of their convictions. Instead you post anonymously from abroad like the sock puppet you are, as far as I’m concerned. If you wish to contribute here, and be taken seriously, you need to stop posting as “Matilda” and stand behind what you post here. This is where we are as a blog at this point. I don’t delete comments. That being said the days of people such as yourself posting comments as you do here, anonymously from who knows where, are over.
Make no mistake, I nailed as a Buddhist blogger. I did my bit, made my stand against Karma Kagyu sectarian skulduggery, as a Karma Kagyu, without hiding who I was from those that wished to silence me. It got so bad in 2013 that I was physically threatened by a member of Chicago KTC. To KTD’s credit they sorted this person out, but it happened. I prevailed, nonetheless, despite the lengths that KTD’s supporters went to force me to stop me from publishing the blog. They tried every trick in the book, posted comments about myself, my wife, and family, but I turned them around onto KTD and its lamas until it was they that stood down.
I’m simply done with people such as yourself who expect me to sit back an allow you to post your comments as if you were somebody when you lack the conviction to bear the consequences of identifying who you are and where you are commenting from. I don’t hold new commentators or people commenting in passing to this standard. I check anonymous commentators as needed, but otherwise can’t be bothered to go to the trouble of doing so. This is how it is going to be here moving forward. Lump or leave it. As far as I’m concerned you have contributed nothing to this blog, and the prospect of not seeing your comments here in the future concerns me not.